I own you all...

Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2
JOTS_MAX
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 am

I own you all...

Postby JOTS_MAX » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:50 pm

That is called an attention grabber. The real reason I made this thread is to state my argument on why MOTS was superior to JK. Which, I guess, validates the title, but whatever... 8)

Far fewer people played MOTS than JK. This is JK's one true advantage. The more people, the more competition. This applies to all video games. But that is not the only factor deciding how much skill a game requires. Just look at Counter Strike. Probably the most popular FPS of all time, but designed for newbies. In a sense, that's why it was so popular. Literally anybody could play it. There's absolutely no doubt that JK/MOTS took more skill than CS, hence the far smaller communities. Anyway, with game population out of the way...

Let's talk about damage. JK's damage was not quite perfect. It took only 2 direct Conc rifle shots to get a kill. In MOTS, they changed it to 3. This created a bigger gap between the good and bad players. It took a bit more effort to get kills, and took away some luck. But mainly, it greatly helped with spawn rape. Being able to take more damage allowed players a much better chance to get back into the game after they died once. The game came down to more than just controlling the map, like JK.

MOTS also had much more powerful weapons than JK, to balance the "extra health". Seekers could completely own anybody in the open, and Carbonite was a guaranteed death if a good player got near you with it. So the Conc wasn't your only salvation. After dying, you could go for 3 different weapon types, and have a reasonable chance of changing the momentum of the game. Compare this with JK, where if you died once, you most likely lost the match. Because after that, you were just raped, not able to get the ONE gun in the game that was usable, because it was controlled by your opponent. This made things more interesting for the person getting the kill too.
Instead of just getting to spawn rape the opponent, after getting a kill, you had to actually keep playing.

But enough about about damage. Here is the main point of this post. JK had a grand total of 2 maps. If you played guns, you played on Oasis. If you played sabers, you played on BGJ. If you were a master of the game and played both, you were a master of two whole maps. This is very different from most FPS games, that have a plethora of playable maps. JK came down to pure repetition. There was very little thinking involved; no new material was learned. It was simple repetition of the same exact thing. Naturally, people who had done it 1000 times more than others were better.

MOTS, on the other hand, was much different. There were a lot more game types and a lot more maps to master. And here is the ultimate difference:
To be considered one of the best in JK, you had to be really good at one total game type, on one total map.
To be considered one of the best in MOTS, you had to be good at every single game type in the game - and we had a lot a more:
NF Guns
NF Sabers
FF Guns
FF Sabers
Soldiers only
Scouts only
Bounty Hunters only
Personalities

Plus more maps:
Spaceport
Cargo Ship
Gantry
Tat. Homestead
Throne Room
Ruins
Hutt Palace
Plus quite a few custom maps, and unlike JK, these weren't all just ports of Oasis or BGJ.

That is exactly twice the total game types of JK and several times the levels. And don't think these were just "possibilities". They were some of the most played game types and maps in the history of the game. And to be mentioned as one of the best, you had to be very good at every single one (or something like 95% of them). Some of the game types were very different from anything JK had to offer. Soldiers played more like a Quake-type FPS, BH came down to knowing something most didn't, and Scouts was something no other game has had in the history of gaming.

The greatest part of the game, however, was Personalities. All 4 were allowed: Jedi, Soldier, Bouty Hunter, and Scout. They were extremely well balanced. While certain classes dominated on one map, others dominated other maps. The different combinations of top players playing different personalities on different maps was something JK had no possible way of competing with. And again, all the people considered "one of the best of all time" were really good at everything the game had to offer.

Lastly, I think everybody that was at least semi-actively involved in both communities would admit that ours was better. It was smaller, but it was also a lot more tightly-knit. There were far fewer idiots, and far fewer newbies. We did have the same great shit talk; after all, it was the Zone. It just wasn't quite as much drama as JK.

Anyway, of course I'm not saying that JK didn't require a lot of skill. I'm saying that MOTS required the same skill, plus a lot more. While JK was completely focused, MOTS was well-rounded. It's like comparing a regular track athlete with a decathlete. You can have a guy that's really good at high jump, but sucks horribly at every single other track&field event. And then you have a decathlete, who dominates in 10 different events. Doesn't mean the great high jumper sucks. Just means the decathletes are much better athletes overall :)

And don't bring up Usain Bolt, because he doesn't seem to be human. :shock:

Discuss...

_Gordakarn_
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Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:07 am

Re: I own you all...

Postby _Gordakarn_ » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:15 pm

I haven't really played a whole lot of MOTS, but like you said JK only had two levels people cared about. It was because these levels were simple and the competiton in JK was fierce. Don't forget about CTF either, alot of people played Nar ctf in the day.

Oasis and BGJ were like the arenas for JK gamers, just like when you step into a boxing match.. you step into a ring. It's the same everywhere you go. Throughout the years, people were able to figure out various ways to play in the levels themselves, which made them very interesting.

I can't say much about the mots levels and what those are like, but I'm sure the same principles would apply. Perhaps mots just had levels that were just alot funner to play rather than crappy blades of death or valley of the jedi. Nar Terminal bay was ok, but the item placement was a turn off to most(and the force field).

What made oasis and bgj so popular was because they were simple levels and they were open and centered. Oasis had the pool and bridge in the center, where the combat took place and areas outside of that, that lead to different ways to get there.

In the case of Bgj, it was the fact taht it was a small level with different kinds of terrain to duel, all in just one level (ship,cave,main,cliff). The design itself was very appealing and the gameplay in said level was very addicting. Sadly, JK just didn't have many levels made that could compete with oasis and bgj in terms of gameplay, which is why noone bothered to learn anything else.

Like I said before, I don't know the levels in MOTS and what makes those levels so addicting and appealing to the players. I just know why JK kicked ass with only two levels hehe.
<Nen> nf and his minions ruined JK for me forever
<Nen> nh*

NeJJa_
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:05 am

Re: I own you all...

Postby NeJJa_ » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:15 am

so what is MOTS?

_Gordakarn_
Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:07 am

Re: I own you all...

Postby _Gordakarn_ » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:05 am

Image
<Nen> nf and his minions ruined JK for me forever
<Nen> nh*

JOTS_MAX
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Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 am

Re: I own you all...

Postby JOTS_MAX » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:23 pm

Thanks for the intelligent response Gord.

If you want to use the boxing analogy, however, I can just come back with a boxing vs MMA analogy. In MMA there's also the same "ring". And boxing is involved. Except on top of that, there's also kicking, grappling, wrestling, the whole ground game, etc. There's no question that it's more complex than boxing, even though it's still set in the same setting.

The most unfortunate thing is that most JK people never even gave MOTS a chance. A common thing I heard is something about sounds being low quality or something. But who cares about sound when the actual gameplay is much superior? There was like one total JK player in the entire history of the game that ended up becoming a top MOTS player (MajiC). The rest of all who tried it got owned and went back to JK, saying that MOTS sucks.

Ah well, I just made this thread when I was bored, to see what kind of responses I'd get. To be honest, I was expecting a bit more serious replies. But I guess when you know you're owned, a one line insult is a pretty easy way out. 8)

dsbr-mode
Junior Member
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:42 pm

Re: I own you all...

Postby dsbr-mode » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:54 pm

i played in some mots tournament and destroyed all the competition. i think i rolled some fag named dragonfire also. mots sucks. nicodemus will agree.
genetix is the best

JOTS_MAX
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 am

Re: I own you all...

Postby JOTS_MAX » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:34 pm

Liar!

Actually nico slightly helped me write that. He reminded me about the damage thing of JK vs MOTS. But yeah, he thinks MOTS was far superior to JK, and he was a big JK fan. So ha!

Also, I have no idea what MOTS tournament you could have possibly been in. Maybe when the game was dead, after all the good players quit. That seems to match the dragonfire thing too. He was a total newbie as late as like 2002.

I was really active with MOTS, so I knew of every tourney that happened, and I don't remember any where a JK player did anything of consequence (except MajiC). So must have been really late in the game's life, after I left. Do you remember any other people's names that you ran into?


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